Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 3

Due to the size of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive (related to the article Swift Boat Veterans for Truth), the archive has been subdivided.

Also see:
 * Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 1
 * Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 2
 * Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 4
 * Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 5

Bush,Cheney draftdodgers
Swift boat veterans for truth,that lied about the War Hero John Kerry, has got to be the scum of the earth.Any one who would vote for the Draftdodger Bush ahead of a War Hero like Kerry, has got to be the scum of the earth.I'm voting for John Kerry. Kerry,Edwards 2004

Bush a draft dodger??
Calling Bush a draft dodger is a slap in the face to every National Guard member in the US.


 * not really; most Guardsmen signed up because they wanted to serve; and they went on to accumulate a record of service.

Go ahead fella and vote for Kerry, I'm sure you also voted for Clinton who was a bonafide draft dodger!


 * absolutely; also Dan Quale; lots of others, some of which admit it, some don't.

But oh, I forgot, you have double standards for Democrats - sorry.


 * BS; and don't bother being sorry, even if you are wrong.


 * Furthermore, even though it doesn't matter, George H.W. Bush was a gun runner and drug dealer (CIA/Nicaragua/Iran-Contra); but it doesn't really matter any more than the fact that Clinton wasn't drafted.


 * George W. Bush probably deserved every single medal which he was awarded.

How many of SBVT's members ever met Kerry? A few?


 * For what its worth, I believe they all served in the same area and most of them claim to have known him and been around him a lot of the time.


 * I'm trying to remember ANYBODY I knew for for a four-month period 35 years ago. There are women I SLEPT WITH for four months that long ago whose names I don't even remember.  Guess their memories are better than mine.

And how many served under his 4-month command? And they came to know him well enough to determine that George Bush would make a better civilian leader of the military? I see.

While Kerry was leading fighting men and apparently saving at least one life under enemy fire in a combat zone, our brave Commander-in-Chief was risking his life in the kudzu fields of the deep south courageously fighting off that overwhelming urge he'd get to take a big, fiery shit after he'd eat dinner at one of Muscle Shoals' whorehouses. (Of course, that assumes he wasn't actually hanging out back at the summer place in Kennebunkport.) You know, if Kerry only served in Vietnam for a day, it was a day longer than George Bush did it.

SBVT is nothing more than a bunch of harddicks for Bush who'd vote for him against any opponent, no matter what. Bush and Kerry are BOTH rich Mama's Boys, and the members of SBVT lack the character to be honest about being partisan. This whole thing is gonna backfire on them.

"The August 4 2004 editions of Fox News Channel's Hannity & Colmes and MSNBC's Scarborough Country dedicated coverage and airtime to the SWVT campaign. Misrepresentations and misinformation failed to be addressed. For example, claims that SWVT members served with John Kerry on his boat in Vietnam were supported by the Hannity & Colmes broadcast, which referred to the group as Kerry's "crewmates."

This part of the article is incorrect in two different ways. 1) I saw the Hannity/Colmes interview and it was mentioned repeatedly that these guys didn't serve ON THE SAME BOAT as Kerry. The guy from the group even said that himself. One of hosts - I don't know which one is which - said it several times throughout the interview. That interview was followed by an interview with someone from the Kerry Campaign who went on to say it several more times. 2) I am not aware of any quote from these guys that claim that they did serve on the same boat. Have they really ever claimed that at all?


 * The ad leads the viewer to believe that these men knew Kerry well enough to judge his ability to be the civilian leader of the military. To claim that they served with Kerry because they were in Vietnam at the same time is like me saying that I went to college with George Bush simply because we were in college at the same time.  It's misleading.  It's deceptive.  It's dishonest and it's the same crap the Bush people pulled in the last campaign.


 * Some of these men were Kerry's commanders. They most likely did serve with him and remember him. I've also heard from other "Swift Boat Veterans" - not affiliated with this group - that if you were part of the same Swift Boat group, you wouldn't have to be on the same boat to get to know one of the other guys. These boats - according to these veterans - travelled together and were usually very close by. They have said that you would never let a boat like this patrol on its own, it would travel in groups. This very well could be just a partisan smear attempt - but so far, I haven't seen anything to discredit them. I think we all need more info before we can pass judgement. My point still stands - these guys have never claimed to serve on the same boat and in every interview I've seen them give, they have said very plainly that they didn't serve on the same boat.


 * And, by the way, the "Bush people" are not connected to this group.. in fact, they're distancing themselves from it.


 * The Democrats are going to launch a similar campaign as soon as they can find anybody who ever served with Bush.


 * Bush served? You people will tell yourself anything

Thank all of you.
My very sincere appreciation for what you have done and are doing for the betterment and ultimate protection of our country. I blindly believe everything in your ad and have your book on order. As a member of a USAF Fighter Wing in 65 and 66 I am so damn tired of the politizing and lies as well as personnal insults by our Commander in Chief I want to puke. You have raised the bar to high for Bush to reach, reported dishonestly and raised the awareness of many of your countrymen that you are willing to do ANYTHING to get Bush elected. For this I offer my heartfelt thanks.

Lies
Talk about revisionist. None of the 13 ever served with John Kerry and all are right-wing Republicans. There is not one Indepedent or Democratic voter among them.

John won the Silver Star, and why do you keep trying to harm a fellow Vietnam Veteran for having the balls to serve, when he didn't have to. Reality is that George Bush is a draft-dodger!!

Why don't you put in your ad that 2 weeks before Bush's graduation from college, while over 100,000 men waited for word on whether they would get into the National Guard, Bush submitted his application and was sworn in on the same day!!!

The US Army had a rule in Vietnam that 3 wounds you went stateside. You find something wrong with that? I damn sure would have gone back on my third!! And you would call me a coward??

I am not a big supporter of Kerry, but as a Vietnam Veteran (1966-1967, 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division, Phan Rang) I am appalled at what you are doing and I hope to meet each of you personally.

Dan

Bush a HERO!
How dare any of you question the courage of our heroic Commander-in-Chief. The reason that we can't find his service records is that he was on a highly-classified, top secret National Guard mission in Ohio where he bravely led his valiant men in fierce hand-to-hand combat to put down a horrific uprising of unarmed Communist students at the Battle of Kent State, where he personally scored four enemy kills and was awarded the Aluminum Star and secret decoder ring. Dick Cheney? Well, he was courageously studying business with all the strength he could muster in the defense of his financial freedom.

Bush supporters
Bush supporters lie, lie, lie. They don't know the difference in a lie and the truth. On top of all the lies,they claim to be christians. They are no more of a christian than Satan is. Live up to the Ten Commandments Bush supporters,and start telling the truth once and for all. People are sick of your lies.

"Supporters" seems the wrong word because it implies a reasoned decision. Bush's base deify him, refusing to acknolwedge any flaw or mistake, as he himself does.

Furthermore, they're living a whole parallel reality than the rest of us. We see conflict of interest as cronyism and corruption. They don't see it at all; nothing abnormal or improper about it enough to merit acknowledgement. Same for other forms of integrity; they don't exercise it because they don't have it and they don't have a clue what it is about.

Perhaps they've been consumed by the mammon of their "free market" mantra of greed and exploitation; for their lives have been reduced to only fear and loathing.

I am so tired of people getting upset because Kerry's past has come to light. Kerry was the one who decided to make it such a huge point.

A MUST READ
I NEED YOUR CLOSE ATTENTION! FOLLOWING IS MY ORIGINAL POST OF A FEW DAYS AGO FOLLOWED BY THE WAY A JOHN KERRY LEFTEST LIBERAL CHANGED IT. THIS IS A SHOCKING, DISHONEST ATTACK ON MY RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH AND EXPRESSION. DO YOU WANT SLEEZEBALLS LIKE THIS IN CHARGE OF OUR NATION. SURELY NOT. THE CHANGED POST IS ABOVE TITLED "THANK ALL OF YOU". as well as following the original post immediately below. Some original parts changed by liberals are in caps to clarify. In the changed version the changes ar clarified by "...."

You can't even spell, and you people call yourself patriots. I think not!

Thank all of you. (Original Post)

My very sincere appreciation for what you have done and are doing for the betterment and ultimate protection of our country. I TRULY believe everything in your add and have your book on order. As a member of a USAF Fighter Wing in 65 and 66 I am so damn tired of the politizing and lies as well as personnal ATTACKS against our Commander In Chief I want to puke. You have raised the bar, reported honestly and raised the awareness of many of your countrymen. For this I offer my heartfelt thanks.

Thank all of you. (AS CHANGED BY SOME LIBERAL) ) My very sincere appreciation for what you have done and are doing for the betterment and ultimate protection of our country. I  "blindly"   believe everything in your ad and have your book on order. As a member of a USAF Fighter Wing in 65 and 66 I am so damn tired of the politizing and lies as well as personnal   "insults  by our Commander in Chief"   I want to puke. You have raised the bar  " to high for Bush to reach" , reported   "dishonestly "   and raised the awareness  " of many"   of your countrymen   "that you are willing to do ANYTHING to get Bush elected."   For this I offer my heartfelt thanks.

MY FINAL COMMENT. As a career USAF Pilot, now retired, who has been involved in conflicts in various parts of this world as well as Vietnam I am incensed by this blatent liberal action. It is insulting to those friends I have lost as well as to me personally. It does prove the extent John Kerry libearals will go to and further proves his total unfitness to lead our nation. Please forgive the Caps but I needed to yell a bit here.

I THINK IT IS DISGUSTING THAT THESE SO CALLED "SWIFTBOAT VETS FOR TRUTH" ARE ALLOWED TO SPREAD THEIR HATE. UNTRUTHS, AND OUTRIGHT REPUBLICAN PROPOGANDA ON AMERICA'S AIRWAVES.

THEY ARE NO BETTER THEN HANOI JANE FOR THEIR ATTACKS ON KERRY ARE ATTACKS ON ALL OUR GI'S WHO RECEIVED PURPLE HEARTS IN NAM. MY BOTHER RECEIVED PURPLE HEARTS AND I AM SURE IF HE WERE RUNNING AGAINST BUSH THIS SAME BUNCH OF SLIMEBALLS WOULD COME FORTH AND SPREAD CRAP AND LIES ABOUT HIM.

THEY MAKE ME SICK AND I HOPE BUSH LOSES SO FAR THEY ALL GO COMMIT HERI KERRY (PUN)

WHAT A DISGRACE THES SO CALLED VETERANS AGAINST KERRY ARE TO ALL OUR MEN WHO HAVE SERVED IN WARS.. THEY SHOULD BE ATTACKING THE DOLT WHO WENT AWOL AND HAD NO GUTS TO GO TO NAM!

Ask mr kerry to release his military records.
There is not two versions of the truth..kerry can disprove all of these alegations if he would release all of his military records. It is easy to do all he needs to do is sign one form. DD180. Looks like all youall want to do is attack the messenger.

Shameful
This SwiftVets outfit is a subversion of democracy. Maybe someday this sort of vicious, Rove-style diversionary politicking will go away and we'll concentrate on serious issues, but until then we will have to put up with this crap. Admit it, you squirrels are still livid over Kerry's anti-war efforts when he returned for Viet Nam, aren't you? You are nothing more than a bunch of hack smear artists. If you were "swifter," had consciences, and were aware of the damage you cause to serious public discourse, you probably wouldn't sleep at night.

Kerry a Hero??
Instead of raking the swiftboys over the coals, ask a few questions of Kerry and his hacks Lanny Davis and James Carville. 1) If you were under fire for 5000 meters (quite a gauntlet for ANYONE to survive with any decent cover and concealment, much less an exposed target like a swiftboat or PBR on a river surface) while returning to pickup Rassman, why weren't there any bullet holes in the boat? 2)Why no RPG or other heavy weapon damage? 3)Are we to believe they only used small weapons fire to stop you? Instead of using phrases like "Rove-style diversionary", "hack smear artists" and the like, ask questions!!!! But you won't. You're not concerned with the truth, or even what's best for all of us. Just for your own agenda. I spent the best years of my youth in the service of my country so that folks like you could debate reasonably. Seems odd that those that would shut up the swifties would vociferously defend the right of their side to smear the President, attack his supporters, etc. at will. Any vet worth his salt and half a head on his shoulders knows deep in his heart that Senator Kerry's claims, record, stories JUST DON'T MAKE SENSE, in most any scenario he tries to explain them in. It seems that's why those that defend this patchwork quilt of supposed heroics aren't vets at all but others who have NO KNOWLEDGE of how these events can, could, and probably did unfold. I watched Davis and Carville on TV the other night attack the swifty guys with no logic, no knowledge, no experienced-based fact except what they were schooled in by other pseudo-commandos. They acted like children and I was embarassed for them. IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN REAL HEROES, LOOK UP THE DEEDS OF MEN SUCH AS LT NICK ROE OR MSG ROY BENEVEDEZ. Rassman and other SF men will know what I mean. You civilians, especially meatsticks like Kerry, Davis, and Carville, couldn't understand.

De Oppresso Liber

>>>>>>metprof, 10thSFGA<<<<<<<<<

bitter old men
The SBVFT are apparently a bunch of bitter old men who can't get over the fact that they LOST the Vietnam war, and thank God for that! If it weren't for anti-war protesters, and John Kerry and Jane Fonda, that war would still be going on, with "light at the end of the tunnel." And don't think for a minute that Bush, the draft dodger, is not behind all this. As a draft dodger, he can't himself criticize Kerry, but his flunkies can, because they are supposedly "independent." You LOST the war, SBVFT--GET OVER IT! - The reaction a lot of Kerry's supporters have to these guys is really weird. I mean, if Kerry can make a big deal out of his record in Viet Nam, so can someone else. They have every right to tell their story the way they remember it. If they're wrong, it will come out. If they're lying, it will come out. If they're right, that too will come out. I don't understand the rush to trash them before we know for sure. At this point, no one has fully investigated any of these accusations and the military's records have not been released.

The fact that some of them have ties to the republican party is irrelevant. Some have ties to the democratic party. The primary author of the book claims he has given more money to democrats than republicans. If true, thats an interesting twist. From what I understant, the majority of Kerry's superiors are part of this group. Again, that is interesting. From what I understand, nearly all of the 20 members of Kerry's unit are part of this group. That also is interesting. Does any of this mean that they're right or that they aren't politically motivated? No, but, I think it is enough that journalists should at least look into this stuff. If journalists give Michael Moore, or Limbaugh or Falwell a second of airtime, they deserve to give these guys an hour. If they're full of crap, it won't take long to surface.