Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 1

Due to the size of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive (related to the article Swift Boat Veterans for Truth), the archive has been subdivided.

Also see:
 * Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 2
 * Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 3
 * Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 4
 * Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 5

John Kerry has no answer for the Swift Boat Veterans. If he had not tried to use the Vietnam war to promote his campaign SBVFT would not exist. He has absolutely no record to stand on, no convictions and he will say anything to be elected.

Bold textSwift Boat Vetrans for Truth...are COMMUNIST!

These idiots that are calling John Kerry a deserter are no better than the communists that we were fighting in the vietnam war. They are supporting George W. Bush (who is no better than Adolph Hitler) for going into another country who has done nothing to us, and killing innocent people, and sending our brothers, sisters, fathers and mothers to loose their lives in Iraq.

Big money (Halliburton) and revenge (for daddy bush) is all George W. is about.

I appreciate all vetrans (even the misguided idiots who are supporting this campaign) for their service to their country.

However...anyone who knowingly supports comunism (the republican party) should ride in a convertible through Dealey Plaza...and remember that Democrats are willing to give their life (even a sitting president) for their beliefs.

George W. is a coward, an idiot and a bafoon. If he does not denounce these people for their wrong doing...he will surely pay the consequences at the ballot box in November, and will be living in Crawford Texas for good!

Stop Thowing Dust In Our Eyes and Just Explain How SBFT Are Lying
Otherwise, just admit they are probably telling the truth. If SBVFT are lying then in almost every case Sen. Kerry can easily show that that they are. If they are not, then Sen. Kerry has been lying and shading the truth for 35 years. It is troubling that the senator has made no attempt to show that they are lying.

Personally I think Sen. Kerry should have stuck with what he said during Clinton's 1992 campaign (against a WWII hero) that the Vietnam War was a particularly divisive period in the nation's history and should not be dredged up for political gain. Now that he obviously intends to run for President solely on what he did for 4 months 36 years ago, whether the SBVFT are telling the truth or not is the most important question regarding anyone casting a vote for John Kerry. Unfortunate but true.

Since the following appears to be opinion and conjecture (with no citations or other information to back it up), I moved it to this Talk page from the article page. -- Diane

"Thinking individuals have noted that Bush is quite similar in his secretive, manipulative behaviors to former president Nixon. While the mainstream media has honestly reported the ties of Bush to corruption, and really missed the salient points of his paranoid, secretive, and problematic past and prsent, when it comes to supporters of Senator Kerry's campaign and their ties to wealthy Democratic donors, their silence has been deafening."

Oh, I see. Joe Conason et al (Democrat flacks masquerading as reporters) would have everyone believe that the only truths about Kerry are those propagated in a manner reminiscent of Leni Riefenstahl by Democrat operatives at the Democrat Convention. Sorry, boys; the truth will out. Suggest you interview the gunner's mate on Kerry's swift boat for a few facts (or wait for the book on 15 Aug).

Excusssssssssssssse me, but isn't the Republicans who are trying to wipe out the Democrat's use of 527 committees?

HYPOCRITS !!!!

Excusssssssssssssse me, but what is the relevance of 527s to this article? If Republicans "wipe out the Democrat's use" of them, it will wipe them out for themselves, too. Clearly if one is interested in campaign finance reform, the 527s must go.

More Republican Ties Behind Swift Boat Vets for Bush Public records reveal that two of the people in the new "Swift Boat Veterans for Bush" television ad are Republican activists, as the fact sheet below shows. This is just more proof that Bush's Republican allies are the ones behind this disgraceful smear of John Kerry's military record. It's pretty clear what's going on here. It's no wonder the Bush campaign refuses to condemn this smear.

KENNETH CORDIER

PARTISAN: Another Texas Republican Donor

CORDIER, KENNETH DALLAS,TX 75208 US AIR FORCE/RETIRED COLONEL 3/2/2001 $1,000 Republican Party of Dallas County

CORDIER, KENNETHW MR DALLAS,TX 75225 SELF EMPLOYED 2/27/2002 $238 RNC/Repub National State Elections Cmte

CORDIER, KENT DALLAS,TX 75206 RETIRED 6/30/2000 $1,000 Hutchison, Kay Bailey

2001-06-05 REPUBLICAN PARTY OF TEXAS CORDIER, KEN 1 $100 [followthemoney.org]

PARTISAN: &#8220;Despised&#8221; LBJ &#8220;The procession ended just before the 1968 presidential election when the United States stopped its bombing campaign. &#8216;I remember that was the worst day of my life&#8217; because the POWs' treatment worsened and they felt forgotten by their government, Col. Cordier said. He "despised" Lyndon Johnson for his war policies.&#8221; [Dallas Morning News, 11/10/03]

PARTISAN: Bush Administration Ties He is a member of a Bush administration advisory panel on veterans&#8217; issues. [&#8220;VA Announces Membership of POW Advisory Committee,&#8221; PR Newswire, 4/17/02; http://www1.va.gov/opa/pressrel/PressArtInternet.cfm?id=440 ]

PARTISAN: Open About His Conservative Political Views &#8220;Col. Cordier (pronounced core-dee-AY) still wears his conservatism on his sleeve and doesn't hold back in his appraisals of more liberal approaches &#8220;[Dallas Morning News, 11/10/03]

JUDGEMENT: Defending Abu Ghraib Abuses? &#8221;Inappropriate remarks: Last month, a lone bagpiper marched to the tune of "Amazing Grace" as silence fell over the distinguished guests, choir, color guard and the veterans and families who came to dedicate the Irving Veteran's Memorial Park honoring those who gave "the last full measure of devotion" to their nation. Unfortunately, one of the invested guests, retired Air Force Col. Ken Cordier, a decorated former Vietnam POW and experienced speaker, chose to politicize this solemn event. In an attempt at levity, he defended the pulling of ladies' panties over the faces of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. interrogators at Abu Ghraib as preferable to beheading. His inappropriate, Limbaughistic comments detracted from the reverence and purpose of this event. Richard A. Widener, Irving&#8221; [THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS, 6/13/04]

JUDGEMENT: Said Fellow POW Was &#8220;A Traitor&#8221; Talking about POWs who were released early: &#8220;According to Cordier, Low &#8216;is a traitor to the other prisoners of war" for accepting premature release on July 18, 1968.&#8217;&#8221; [Air Force Times, 11/3/03]

INCONSISTENCY: Doesn&#8217;t Remember Kerry Being Invoked In Vietnam &#8220;Cordier, now living in Texas, doesn't recall Kerry's name specifically being used in interrogations, propaganda broadcasts by Hanoi Hannah (Radio Vietnam) or during "attitude checks" -- political indoctrination sessions -- since Kerry was then not a household name. But he said he does remember the North Vietnamese using the so-called Winter Soldier investigations and photographs of war veterans, both real and imposters, throwing military medals over the White House fence.&#8221; [UPI, 8/3/04]

PARTISAN: Questioned Normalization Under Clinton And Wished Bush Would Win &#8220;Said he questioned the president's motives and the appropriateness of the visit at this time. He predicts that the next administration, which he presumes will be headed by Texas Gov. George W. Bush, will engage more in "carrot and stick diplomacy" with the Vietnamese government, offering "generous rewards" for concessions&#8221; [Dallas Morning News, 11/19/00] PAUL GALANTI

JUDGEMENT: Wanted To Ban Draft Dodgers From Public Colleges &#8220;A House of Delegates committee yesterday killed a bill sponsored by Del. Warren E. Barry (R-Fairfax) that would have directed Virginia's state colleges not to admit any young man who failed to register for the draft. Barry appeared before the Education Committee along with a former Navy flier, Paul Galanti of Richmond, who had spent seven years as a North Vietnamese prisoner of war, but the panel nonetheless killed his idea for the second year in a row, this time by a vote of 12 to 8.&#8221; [Washington Post, 2/5/83]

JUDGEMENT: Called Conservative Christians &#8220;Sheep&#8221; "They probably called their little followers. They vote on that one issue. They call them sheep. That's exactly what they are." -Paul Galanti, McCain's Virginia campaign co-chairman, on the backlash by Virginia's conservative Christian voters after McCain's attacks Monday on the Rev. Jerry Falwell and Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson. AP, 2/29/00

JUDGEMENT: Insulting Disabled Vets? &#8220;Life has a way of throwing curve balls and John [Hager] got beaned by one when he acquired polio as an adult and lost the use of his legs. He would have been forgiven for tossing in the towel, drifting over to the VA hospital and spending the rest of his life feeling sorry for himself.&#8221; [Richmond Times Dispatch, 6/2/01]

JUDGEMENT: On Critics Of The Vietnam War: &#8220;Communist Sympathizers&#8221; &#8220;It caused me to question anything I hear from Communists or their many sympathizers or copycats or dupes in America who tended then - and still tend - to distort the truth for their personal gain, or even (gasp) to lie if that will achieve the desired end.&#8221; [Richmond Times Dispatch, 6/17/01]

PARTISAN: Carter-Basher &#8220;I had a great final three years in the Navy despite the devastation Carter's policies had wrought on the military. My last Navy year was under one of the finest-ever Commanders-in-Chief, who led the country out of Jimmy Carter's unlamented and self-caused "malaise."&#8221; [Richmond Times Dispatch, 6/17/01]

Posted by Peter Daou on August 20, 2004 at 05:39 PM

Military Service | Entry link Bush Campaign Busted Passing Out &#8220;Swift Boat Vets for Bush&#8221; Flyer More Republican Ties Behind Swift Boat Vets for Bush Swift Boat Vets for Bush Ad Fact Check &#8211; &#8220;Sellout&#8221; George Bush: Standing Still While Oil Prices Skyrocket BRING IT ON view all entries FACT CHECK: Swift Boat Veterans for Bush John Kerry's Legislative Record John Kerry &#8211; Strong on Defense & Intelligence Heinz Foundation Fact Check "Well, I think if you say you're going to do something and don't do it, that's trustworthiness." &#8211; George W. Bush [8/30/00]

previous entries The Washington Post says the Bush ad campaign is "making history" for its "unprecedented negativity."

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Explanation on reversion
I reverted some commentary that was inserted into a quotation taken from the SBVT website. The commentary may have been reasonable in and of itself, but it shouldn't appear within statements inside quote marks that are attributed to someone else. When we quote someone else's words, we need to quote them accurately. --Sheldon Rampton 21:30, 1 Aug 2004 (EDT)

Veterans Who Came Home Early for Winning Purple Hearts
Why doesn't your organization ask the Navy how many of their personnel had their Vietnam tours shorted because they won three Purple Hearts?

Kerry may be the only one to do so. If not, I suspect the number who had their tours shortened is a very small list.

H.J. Dalton, Jr. Brig. Gen., USAF Retired Vietnam July 1968-July 1969

You are low life scum
I'm a 53 year old Vet, and for the first time in my life I will vote for a Democratic President. Why? Because of scum like you that has some how found a home in the Republican party. What you are stooping to is the lowest yet from a Veterans group. You and all of your kind sicken me and thousands of other vets with your uncalled for attacks with such a repulsive sleazy smear tactic you are doing all for your 15 minutes of fame. I have contacted every vet that I know personally, and have asked them to do the same. Everyone of you that appear on this ad will be gone over with a fine tooth comb looking for anything we can and will use to do the same to you. You call yourself a proud vet? I don't think so. You are nothing more than a Band of Liars.

You call yourselfs vets, I won't even call you men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I am a woman who remembers the Vietnam War. I lost family and friends and it still hurts. Nobody should question a veteran about his duties in Vietnam ,I don't care if you were ther planting flowers or recieving purple hearts the fact is you were there. I allways thought that you men who were in Vietnam stucked toghther like men and soilders should. All of you are special but when some of you act like scum what can we think ? If George Bush losses this election it will be because of people like you and Rush and Hannity. SHAME ON ALL OF YOU........ A HISPANIC WOMAN

FreeThinker says:

You, madam are the epitomy of hypocrisy. You do 'Your Side' no end of harm by contradicting yourself. You claim that criticizing John Kerry (I assume he is your choice for President) makes one:
 * 1) 1. "Low Life Scum',
 * 2) 2. a "Fame Chaser",
 * 3) 3. A Liar.
 * 4) 4. Somehow LESS than a Man,
 * 5) 5. "Scum" (obviously somehow different from 'Low Life' Scum).

And a Vet who has honorably served his country for vastly larger time periodds than Sen. Kerry becomes ALL of these things simply by criticizing a fellow Vet? How interesting. Then, tell me: WHAT IS JOHN KERRY? You forget whom it is that fired the first shot in this personal little war. SBVT did not exist when Mr. JFK wannabe was assassinating their character. Had they known about it the day it began, it would have been a BIT difficult for them to respond in kind, as THEY were "in-country", Bravely and honorably fulfilling their oblgations as citizens and soldiers of the greatest nation ever to grage God's green Earth.

So if criticizing one's brothers-in-arms makes one all those horrible things you claim, then John Kerry epitomizes all those things.

That's my opinion, but hey... I COULD be wrong.

Clarification
I understand that some visitors to our site are angry at Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, but I want to make it clear that the SourceWatch is not affiliated in any way with SBVT. The SourceWatch is simply "an encyclopedia of people, issues and groups shaping the public agenda." The reason that we have an article here about SBVT is that they are one such group. Our article describes the group's origins, what it says about itself, and also what its critics say. We welcome factual contributions to the article from anyone. Obviously partisan emotions are running high right now. All day long today we've had right-wing supporters of SBVT vandalizing the article and replacing the text with schoolyard insults. Now we seem to be getting some commentary from people who don't like SBVT. Since we are not affiliated with SBVT, however, posting those sorts of comments here will not reach the people at SBVT that you are trying to address. If you want to tell them what you think, their contact information is:

PO Box 26184 Alexandria, VA 22313 Latch@swiftvets.net http://www.swiftvets.com

Ashamed
I am ashamed of you veterans to take sides like this. We are suppose to be honorable men and women who serve or who have served this country. Do not be drawn into the lying political side. This diminishes the way we are viewed by our country. When all else is stripped away all that is left is our honor!

Duplicity
I have never seen such a heinous partisan smear. I'm glad I was in the bush with Marines and not on the rivers with these people who will sell you out for a few votes.

Add one vote for Kerry Edwards.

Kerry is a Liar
C-mon people, it is mind blowing that people have such an intense hatred for our President that they would turn a blind eye to the obvious truth. None of these men have gained finanically for running this ad. So what if a Republican donated money to the group, how is that diffrent to Mr. Soros donating MILLIONS to Democratic Front Groups. Just because a Republican donates to them does not mean they are liars. And ohhh how hypocritical Democrats are when they speak out against these vetrans against Kerry and call them liars but when Republicans speak out about Kerry as a Vetran it's unfair and wrong. Typical I guess!

Kerry Is A Hero
How dare these fools call themselfs veterans if they are, they should stick toghther with all Vietnam veterans .While all of you men were in Vietnam with Kerry, where was Bush and Chenney?????????????????? not with you all !!!!!!!!!! ( chicken Hawks)

More Republican Ties Behind Swift Boat Vets for Bush Public records reveal that two of the people in the new "Swift Boat Veterans for Bush" television ad are Republican activists, as the fact sheet below shows. This is just more proof that Bush's Republican allies are the ones behind this disgraceful smear of John Kerry's military record. It's pretty clear what's going on here. It's no wonder the Bush campaign refuses to condemn this smear.

KENNETH CORDIER

PARTISAN: Another Texas Republican Donor

CORDIER, KENNETH DALLAS,TX 75208 US AIR FORCE/RETIRED COLONEL 3/2/2001 $1,000 Republican Party of Dallas County

CORDIER, KENNETHW MR DALLAS,TX 75225 SELF EMPLOYED 2/27/2002 $238 RNC/Repub National State Elections Cmte

CORDIER, KENT DALLAS,TX 75206 RETIRED 6/30/2000 $1,000 Hutchison, Kay Bailey 01-06-05 REPUBLICAN PARTY OF TEXAS CORDIER, KEN 1 $100 [followthemoney.org]

PARTISAN: "Despised" LBJ "The procession ended just before the 1968 presidential election when the United States stopped its bombing campaign. 'I remember that was the worst day of my life' because the POWs' treatment worsened and they felt forgotten by their government, Col. Cordier said. He "despised" Lyndon Johnson for his war policies." [Dallas Morning News, 11/10/03]

PARTISAN: Bush Administration Ties He is a member of a Bush administration advisory panel on veterans' issues. ["VA Announces Membership of POW Advisory Committee," PR Newswire, 4/17/02; http://www1.va.gov/opa/pressrel/PressArtInternet.cfm?id=440 ]

PARTISAN: Open About His Conservative Political Views "Col. Cordier (pronounced core-dee-AY) still wears his conservatism on his sleeve and doesn't hold back in his appraisals of more liberal approaches "[Dallas Morning News, 11/10/03]

JUDGEMENT: Defending Abu Ghraib Abuses? "Inappropriate remarks: Last month, a lone bagpiper marched to the tune of "Amazing Grace" as silence fell over the distinguished guests, choir, color guard and the veterans and families who came to dedicate the Irving Veteran's Memorial Park honoring those who gave "the last full measure of devotion" to their nation. Unfortunately, one of the invested guests, retired Air Force Col. Ken Cordier, a decorated former Vietnam POW and experienced speaker, chose to politicize this solemn event. In an attempt at levity, he defended the pulling of ladies' panties over the faces of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. interrogators at Abu Ghraib as preferable to beheading. His inappropriate, Limbaughistic comments detracted from the reverence and purpose of this event. Richard A. Widener, Irving" [THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS, 6/13/04]

JUDGEMENT: Said Fellow POW Was "A Traitor" Talking about POWs who were released early: "According to Cordier, Low 'is a traitor to the other prisoners of war" for accepting premature release on July 18, 1968.'" [Air Force Times, 11/3/03]

INCONSISTENCY: Doesn't Remember Kerry Being Invoked In Vietnam "Cordier, now living in Texas, doesn't recall Kerry's name specifically being used in interrogations, propaganda broadcasts by Hanoi Hannah (Radio Vietnam) or during "attitude checks" -- political indoctrination sessions -- since Kerry was then not a household name. But he said he does remember the North Vietnamese using the so-called Winter Soldier investigations and photographs of war veterans, both real and imposters, throwing military medals over the White House fence." [UPI, 8/3/04]

PARTISAN: Questioned Normalization Under Clinton And Wished Bush Would Win "Said he questioned the president's motives and the appropriateness of the visit at this time. He predicts that the next administration, which he presumes will be headed by Texas Gov. George W. Bush, will engage more in "carrot and stick diplomacy" with the Vietnamese government, offering "generous rewards" for concessions" [Dallas Morning News, 11/19/00] PAUL GALANTI

JUDGEMENT: Wanted To Ban Draft Dodgers From Public Colleges "A House of Delegates committee yesterday killed a bill sponsored by Del. Warren E. Barry (R-Fairfax) that would have directed Virginia's state colleges not to admit any young man who failed to register for the draft. Barry appeared before the Education Committee along with a former Navy flier, Paul Galanti of Richmond, who had spent seven years as a North Vietnamese prisoner of war, but the panel nonetheless killed his idea for the second year in a row, this time by a vote of 12 to 8." [Washington Post, 2/5/83]

JUDGEMENT: Called Conservative Christians "Sheep" "They probably called their little followers. They vote on that one issue. They call them sheep. That's exactly what they are." -Paul Galanti, McCain's Virginia campaign co-chairman, on the backlash by Virginia's conservative Christian voters after McCain's attacks Monday on the Rev. Jerry Falwell and Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson. AP, 2/29/00

JUDGEMENT: Insulting Disabled Vets? "Life has a way of throwing curve balls and John [Hager] got beaned by one when he acquired polio as an adult and lost the use of his legs. He would have been forgiven for tossing in the towel, drifting over to the VA hospital and spending the rest of his life feeling sorry for himself." [Richmond Times Dispatch, 6/2/01]

JUDGEMENT: On Critics Of The Vietnam War: "Communist Sympathizers" "It caused me to question anything I hear from Communists or their many sympathizers or copycats or dupes in America who tended then - and still tend - to distort the truth for their personal gain, or even (gasp) to lie if that will achieve the desired end." [Richmond Times Dispatch, 6/17/01]

PARTISAN: Carter-Basher "I had a great final three years in the Navy despite the devastation Carter's policies had wrought on the military. My last Navy year was under one of the finest-ever Commanders-in-Chief, who led the country out of Jimmy Carter's unlamented and self-caused "malaise."" [Richmond Times Dispatch, 6/17/01]

Posted by Peter Daou on August 20, 2004 at 05:39 PM

Military Service | Entry link Bush Campaign Busted Passing Out "Swift Boat Vets for Bush" Flyer More Republican Ties Behind Swift Boat Vets for Bush Swift Boat Vets for Bush Ad Fact Check - "Sellout" George Bush: Standing Still While Oil Prices Skyrocket BRING IT ON view all entries FACT CHECK: Swift Boat Veterans for Bush John Kerry's Legislative Record John Kerry - Strong on Defense & Intelligence Heinz Foundation Fact Check "Well, I think if you say you're going to do something and don't do it, that's trustworthiness." - George W. Bush [8/30/00]

previous entries The Washington Post says the Bush ad campaign is "making history" for its "unprecedented negativity."

learn more Subscribe to the Rapid Response Center's RSS feed: Paid for and authorized by Kerry-Edwards 2004, Inc. Privacy Policy

I'm a veteran
I'm a veteran and my family,friends,myself will be voting for John Kerry. Ocala Florida

I will be voting for Kerry also. Its really amazing how his shipmates from 35 years ago, are making these false accusations about him,why didnt they bring this up years ago, and I for one, tend to believe the man who John Kerry saved not some begrudging shipmates who are affiliated with the Republican party. Im not suprised this is happening though,I hope these men can live with themselves.

Plano,TX