Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 4

Due to the size of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive (related to the article Swift Boat Veterans for Truth), the archive has been subdivided.

Also see:
 * Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 1
 * Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 2
 * Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 3
 * Swift Boat Veterans for Truth/Talk page archive 5

Richard Nixon and Chief Counsel
As a Vietnam Veteran myself, ( 1966-1967 ) India 3/5 I have found that all the slander that has came out of John ONeill's mouth is hatered for a brother in arms. As the June 30 1971 talk show with Dick Cavet, somehow Mr. ONeill's behavior was he served 1 year opposed to Mr. Kerry's 4 months and that made him better. Let us get to the root of the issue, Tricky Ricky ( Impeached President Richard Nixon ) his White house Chief of Counsel just happened to retire when a young Congressman John Kerry was speaking out against the Vietnam War, ( Freedom of Speach ). Along with a retired FBI agent and a host of others that wanted to squash the resistence of vietnam veterans asking the Veterans Administration to help get their lives back on track, to give them the medical needs, this was a promise by the Country to take care of our solider's comming home with losses so great that our public opinion was nothing more than a slap in the face. I know, I have bilateral knee issues that take my time with the ups and downs, but I'am still here.

Now, this so called group of hater's Swift Boat for Just Cause:::: Their intent was to make a fool out of any of us that spoke out, well the talk show sure showed me who the dumbass was.

Look at Kent State and the protest to end the War ,, what did that do but take lives where we thought we were free to live without being in harms way.

Richard Nixon did alot against the United States and against Vietnam Veterans.

I joined the band wagon from all the stuff being wrote about Senator Kerry and was at one point against Kerry from what I thought was good information, as it turned out the information was and is nothing but lies. The book has been recalled and for thirty years this group of veterans have been dogging Senator Kerry, weel he is still standing!!!!! My vote is for Senator John Kerry.

So how is it that a vietnam veteran who has been taken out in minutes of their time in the mud or even in months have to go thru more insults because this one or that one had more time, you disgracefull SOB, Respect, Honor, Duty, this what I will always be for my Country.

catfish

WHO IS LYING
It's seems that Thurlow"s memory is fading or failing.   He receives a bronze star in the action but doesn't thinks for being under fire.  He didn't read the report on the reason for his bronze star.  BULLSHIT!!!   You lost or misplaced the report 20 years ago.  People call that selected memory.  You have lost whatever honor you have claimed.

History will judge you for what you are: Cowards like your draft dodging commander in chief who attacked an honorable man for political gain. What a bunch of hypocrites. Thank God George W. kept the skies of Alabama safe from enemy attack.

You are treacherous and a danger to all around you.

GIVE IT UP GUYS!!!
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF ALL OF THIS....I THINK YOUR EFFORTS WOULD BE BETTER PAID OFF IF YOU OUT ALL THE MONEY THAT IS BEING OUT IN THIS ORGANIZATION AND HELP THOSE VETS WHO COULD REALLY USE IT..

COME ON BOYS ENOUGH IS ENOUGH...I WAS A BUSH SUPPORTER BUT AFTER THIS I AM VOTING FOR KERRY

KEN B.

I am voting for kerry now...shame on all of you!!!!!!
Where were all of you when Kerry ran against Bill weld in Mass for senate....

Help those vets who really need the help...

SHAME ON ALL OF YOU

This is sad
Right now are country is in trouble. Our soliders are dying and are being injured daily. Does anyone ask why? Why are these lives being lost, lives that are cut short? I am only 21 years old and I haven't led a full and complete life yet. So when I see soliders who are younger then me dying, it brings me to tears. I will say my prayers for the families with lost loved ones, and know that I am crying with them, even though they do not know who I am. I am thankful for all of those who served our country, past and present. You all are veterans, you all have had similar experiences as the soliders of today. What do you all do with the donations you receive? You paid for a television ad, those aren't cheap. Why don't you do something POSITIVE with ALL of the money, instead of attacking John Kerry with it. Did the veterans in the TV ad get any money? Do those who are running this website get a cut? Do you give any money to the Bush/Cheney campaign? John Kerry served this country well. If Bush was in Kerry's place you can bet that you all wouldn't have turned your back on him, or would you if the price was right? There is so much negativity and hatred in the world today. Why are you fueling this fire of negativity, hatred, and lies?!? E. L. Morhead

Pleassssssssssse; we are not stupid americans!
To the person who claims that the swift boat Veterans have nothing to gain;HELLO! Thats probably what Halliburton said about Cheney going into the white house and we all see what happened.This story is just ridiculous when you look at the FACTS! And why all of a sudden are these men coming forward after how many years?? I am so tired of this administration insulting the american peoples intelligence time after time!We are not stupid people that are content to just go along with whatever this presidents supporters and even the administration say without researching the FACTS!Read the various reports on these Swift Boat Veterans,THE FACTS,and it becomes clear just as haliburton and Cheney have become clear.If you decide not to;you might as well become republican and just be content to go along with whatever this administration and it's supporters say and do by distorting and lies around every corner.FACT!But I as a intelligent american,will continue to distinguish fact from fiction with FACTS!

You've done a disservice to all Navy vets.
By debasing the medals earned by John Kerry, you've debased all of the medals awarded to members of the Navy during the Vietnam war. Including your own. - a pararescueman who served in Vietnam in 1965

John Kerry is not only a liar. He is the most dangerous man in America today
I believe that John Kerry a very dangerous man. His willingness to do anything for his political gain should be a great cause for alarm.

Lets consider for a moment, John Kerry was in Vietnam just 3 or 4 month, yet he managed to cover himself in medals. Upon his return from Vietnam, he did not think that he had done a good thing; for political convenience, he denounced his participation in Vietnam, pretended to throw away his medals, and he turned on his fellow soldiers, accused them of committing all kinds of atrocities.

Now, that he is running for the presidency, clearly it would benefit him immensely to dig up the Vietnam records and medals. John Kerry has proved that he'll use anyone and anything to get what he wants. If anyone doubts that, just read his ex-wife's book. In it she records their marriage life, divorce and marriage annulment. That is right, John Kerry, annulled his marriage form his wife, the mother of his children, in order to marry Theresa Heinz. What pair!

I applaud the Swift Boat Veterans for their courage in exposing this charlatan, John Kerry, and I wish more people would come forward and join them. The mainstream media has a responsibility to expose the truth about John Kerry, after all he is aiming for the top job, and the American people must know who John Kerry really is before he gets the keys to the White House. However, the media is giving him a free pass, and attack anyone who dares to tell the truth about John Kerry.

For many months, the media, liberal organizations, and the vitriolic Hollywood crowd have attacked President George Bush relentless, slandering his character, his military records and his war records. Not even once, John Kerry condemned these attacks or dissociated himself from them. On the contrary, he basked himself in them, the more hurtful the better, now that the shoe is on the other foot, ouch. It hurts! He wants George Bush to come to his rescue.

President Bush being a man of character did just that, but Kerry just become more virulent and is now blaming the President for the monster, which he himself created and benefited from.

I don't believe that the president should ask the Swift Boat Veterans to stop their campaign for truth. They have the right to speak and tell their story, they were there they know. John Kerry slandered them once, and now he wants to discredit these great Americans.

John Kerry is a very dangerous man, his own flaws, lack of character coupled with that of his wife's, and her money, make a very dangerous combination. I only hope that he'll never become president of the United State.

These Republicans are evil and I never use that word...
but it's time to tell the truth about the people in this party. They are evil and will lie and distort anything and stoop to no known level of lying to win election. Notice I did not say re-election because he was NEVER ELECTED in the first place!

I am having a hard time discerning the difference between your article and the Swift Boat people. Both of you are financed by private citizens. You have one opinion and the other side is telling their opinion, so what?

As a former navy submarine veteran during the viet nam era, my hat is certainly off to the swift boat veterans who further exposed John Kerry for the phony that he obviously is. I am amazed at the numbers of seemingly intelligent people who cannot see through this fraud. John Kerry is unquestionably an insult to MY intelligence.

Mike in NC

The Truth Is Out There
No matter what your belief and affiliation is, several things are true.
 * John Kerry volunteered to serve in the U.S. armed forces in Viet Nam; he did NOT use family influence to avoid this responsibility/opportunity.
 * JK did in fact serve, and can be accounte for in action.
 * JK was awarded the medals.
 * Legible copies of all John Kerry's service record are publicly available online at http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/service.html
 * John Kerry applied for his own medals and was denied at least one of them initially.
 * he went so far as to re-apply for the one that was denied.
 * he came home and denounced the war that he himself participated in, and did testify before Congress for increased veteran support. (audio and transcript readily available online provide very compelling testimony).

Let's find out the Truth
Kerry a search of military records to check on GW's military career. Why now when it's Kerry, do we not find out who signed for his medals and when. Were they the people who were supposed to do this are were strings pulled. The military has this information. Why no outcry for the truth? Still we are hearing about the "missing" month in GW's service record.

And still, NOBODY has come forward to affirm GWB service record.

Why is everybody so upset with SWVfT
It is no more slanderous the the OBIVOUSLY slanted "Fahrenheit 9/11". Michael Moore even tells you his goal is to get Bush out of the White House. Mr Moore was later asked by a newspaper that showed up in the "documenary" to correct a change. He refused, but that is not the problem. A documentary is by definition: "A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration." How CAN you have a DOCUMENTARY the has altered newspaper pages in it. This then becomes a smear. But, everybody here is againt SBVfT. Yet, we have not seen any evidence that anything they said was not a fact.

party before country
shame on swift boat vets .We are all americans my people came here in 1740 fought the french,british-charles Heard at King's mountain.Going after kerry is slime just like McCain both who severed their country and where was your leader Bush AWOl from the nationl guard maybe he was drunk and driving his kids around.You swift boat anti Kerry and this from a daughter of a vet,granddaughter of a vet and god-daughter of Gen.William Cleveland westmoreland curse you with the blood of dead honorable soldiers your feet walk on.I hope you go to staraight to hell you are un-american when a party comes before this country you dishonored the dead and soldiers who fought after you and remember the streets are guarded by our dead-you'll never get in.McCain was right you dishonor my dead and all americans.May the Guards of heaven never allow you through their gates.You forgot its country first not party.I'm voting Kerry.Thank you you reminded me that when you died only your honor and principals remain.Something you don't know anything about.

Army brat Fort Campbell,Ky Little Miss Diana Louise Herd

I also served in Vietnam, Nhe Be to be exact. As far as I am concerned Bush has a shabby record for his time in the National Guard and Kerry has a good record for his time in the Navy. Can't you veterans see that money is the only thing that works for the Bush family and he was not a person that I would like fighting beside me. Veterans have a lot to lose in a person that did not want to be a veteran but walked across a carrier deck looking for respect and a show of support to veterans that he would not give his life for. I worked with the Swift Boats and have a lot of respect for those people who served on them wheather it was for one week or one year. Stop bashing Vietnam veterans and get a life.

Pitiful, pitiful Bush supporters
What goes around,......comes around. How much money have they paid you to make such weak statements? You boys need to do more traveling abroad and see how our European neighbors have handled health care, mass transit, healthy and affordable food,.....and politics. God. You guys might as well have your photos on death row. The Bush boys have numbered your silly ass days.

Getting the truth on both sides
I say let's once and for all,get the truth on both sides.Bush has done his best to keep records secret claiming national security.I think a non partisan committee could sift through the truth without disclosing national security issues.Still this has not been done or even questioned anymore by the media.I haven't heard yet of Kerry asking for his records to be kept secret.Bush's driving record?Bush's military record?Cheney's energy meetings?Once or twice;no-over and over again.This president has more to hide than Bill Clinton's cigar totin' scandal by far! As for flip flopping;the swift group has already flip flop after the records were disclosed about their statements at the time and now they say-we were just going on what Kerry had said.Were they there or not?? They said they were so did they go to Kerry and say "What do you want us to put in our statement?" I think not.Yes they are mad because they think Kerry sold them out.But I knew soldiers that were in Vietnam and it took more guts to tell his story (which we know now was true in the things that went on;not by all and he never said by all)about what happened there than any of these men have in their little fingers.I now have a 17 year old son which is thinking of going into the service.My recommendation will be for him to join some other branch than these men were in;as I consider badmouthing any servicemen who defended this country and still do so today as a act of treason and these men have proven that they are traitors and will badmouth their own.I pity the soldiers left in this branch.These men have left a bad mark for all!God help them.

John Kerry will be President
Turncoats! You all loved receiving those medals! Give them back now! If anyone wants 4 more years of a lying, scheming, dangerously spiteful person in the White House...then John Kerry is NOT your man. I will vote for Kerry, as I did for Clinton. Hopefully this country can be the UNITED states again. I am tired of Bush spending our hard earned tax dollars as if it was his pocket money. You are all a bunch of ole boys down there in Texas...God must have had a reason for placing Texas where it is....the endhole of the country. As for you turncoat Texas swiftboat males, you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.

The Swift Boat Veterans a disgrace to this country
My Personal opinion is that this group is nothing more than a front for the evil Republican Party. They are a complete disgrace to this country. I cannot see how anybody could believe a word they say even on Hardball they proved that they are a bunch of liars. It seems to be the only way the Republican Party feel they could win. They have no credentials to run on after all if everybody might of forgotten Bush did not get in because the people wanted him the Electoral and Supreme Court put him in. So now four years later after Bush destroyed every aspect of the USA the only way he feels he could win the election is to have this slim bag of a group come out and lie about John Kerry. Do not get me wrong I am also not to crazy about Kerry but anybody has to be better than Bush and Cheney.

Once again this group is a complete disgrace to this country.

Indoctrinated partisan fools
Most of these posts are siting only mindless retoreric, on both sides. Every person who blindly eat whatever any idiot spoon feeds you is whats wrong with this country. John Kerry served, yay good for him. Bush served, yay good for him. People who served in Kerrys unit dont like him, oh no, they are evil. Bush drafted the dodge, even tho nobody can provide any supporting evidence or testimony, but who cares. You all need to stop being mindless sheep. Truth isnt what sounds sweetest in your. Educate yourself...

Finger pointing, without any base in fact is what lit the fires of the cremetoriums of the second world war.

O'Neill of SBVT lies in PBS News Hour interview
John O'Neill was interviewed with commentary from Tom Oliphant on the PBS News Hour August 19. The story clearly shows wear and tear. Kerry's story of two of his medals is that he rescued a Mr. Rassmann from a canal under enemy fire after Rassman's boat was crippled by a mine blast. O'Neill claims that other boats stayed in the area but Kerry's left, returning only after 4-5 minutes. He claims there could not have been enemy fire because Rassmann's boat was not damaged. However, one of the SBVT members received a Bronze Star claiming action under enemy fire in the same incident. And of course, Rassman states there was enemy fire from both banks. What I noticed is that O'Neill claims that several boats were in the area for several minutes UNDER NO FIRE, WITHOUT ATTEMPTING TO RESCUE MR. RASSMAN. This in a calm canal where anyone floating would be visible and very likely, audible. Rescuing crewmembers in the water would clearly be priority over trying to save a boat. I also find it a bit unlikely that Viet Cong would not be present or within earshot (O'Neill claims the boat rescue went on for 1 1/2 hours) to take shots at the boats conveniently grouped around the one they had crippled with their mine.

Brother against Brother
Italic text

Oh I say unto thee my God, what have I done to deserve your wrath?

What you have done is to speak out against your brother, your neighbor, your sister, your friend, your words of hatered have shattered the world.

Oh God what can I do to be back into your graces?

Speak not ill words of one another, lend your hand to those who have fallen.

Have we not learn anything from biblicial findings?

Don't we believe in God anymore?

Must we carry the hatered on and on?

All these that we carry will follow us the rest of our lives, don't we get it yet?

The hatered that is among us is overbearing and to contiune this path it's only end will be defeated. We believe in good and good will over come bad.

These words about Vietnam Veterans come back to haunt us and we relive those days, We should as Americans be able to relate to find an order, to gain insight, to educate. The list goes on.

Senator Kerry is a United States Member of the Senate, and with that said, Respect, Duty, Honor must be shown. Show some!!

66 Nam Vet For Kerry!!

BUsh does not want to waste time on condemning smear
In an article on MSN it is mentioned that Bush does not want to waste time on condemning the "swift boat crew for the truth" group who made the smear against John Kerry. He would rather face issues like health care etc. HOW VERY CONVENIENT to get something started (AND I HAVE NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER HE WAS VERY INVOLVED IN THIS MATTER) and then NOT have the time to take care of it, or at the very least, face off with John Kerry. For all of you who insist that Bush should remain for a final four years...where have you been for the last 3 1/2 years? Are you all completely demented? Bush is as crooked as they come, Cheney is a step worse. Do any of you even realize the mess we are in concerning foreign affairs? Do you even care what our image is? This is NOT about us, but about the fututre for our children and our grandchildren. Each day that Bush remains in the White House, places us a step further back in everything that matters to our future. I do want to add that Democrats are not ignorant. When we elect a democratic president, we will take him out after 4 years, if he abuses this country, the way that George Bush has. And please do not even mention Clinton...he did NOT abuse the country!! God help and bless the United States of America!!

re: John Kerry is a liar and a dangerous man.....
Why do you get so personal? I think you have your nerve attacking Mrs Kerry. Keep it to the candidates my dear and calm yourself down. If you find yourself in dire straits, blame Bush. Do not feel so personally defrauded because Mrs Kerry is a wealthy woman. As for her character? what do you know about it? Mrs Kerry is an educated woman who just happens not to claim English as her native tongue. So....if she should say something that is "lack of character" in your estimation, who really cares? If your problem is with her not being American born.....so what...so she was the first in her family to come to America...her children were born American.... just as one of your ancestors came here, so you would eventually be born on US soil and have the right to run your mouth about things you have no clue about.

LT JG Thurlow Award Recommendation (Liar)
ALCON, I have in my hand the USN Award Recommendation Form for LT JG Larry Raymond Thurlow. The Location Of Action: An Xuyen Province, RN Date: 13 March 1969 His Unit: Coastal Division Eleven Name Of Award: Bronze Star In the Summary Of Action it clearly states that "These Actions by LT JG THURLOW took place under constant enemy small arms fire which LT JG THURLOW completely ignored in providing immediate assistance to the boat and crew" The Eye witness for these actions: R.E. Lambert, RD1 484 19 67 ,USN Now that you know these facts which come from the U.S. Government freedom Of Information Act, now for the Shocking Truth !!! It was approved and signed by G.M. ELLIOT, LC DR COMCOSDIV ELEVEN !! Shocking Fact # 2 J. F. Kerry LT JG 713525/1105, USNR (John F. Kerry) is also on this Bronze Star Award Recommendation which was also approved. They were both awarded Bronze Stars for there actions in that same area on that same day. Now for the Final Nail in this Liars story I the Citation for the Bronze Star it states "All units began receiving enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks Lieutenant (Junior grade) THURLOW immediately directed the coxaian of his boat to assist the damaged Inshore Patrol Craft. Despite enemy bullets flying about him." This is so wrong and there is no excuse for this at all !! Total shame should engulf these terrible men.

The Final Truth

THE SARGE!

LT JG Thurlow Award Recommendation (Liar)
ALCON, I have in my hand the USN Award Recommendation Form for LT JG Larry Raymond Thurlow. The Location Of Action: An Xuyen Province, RN Date: 13 March 1969 His Unit: Coastal Division Eleven Name Of Award: Bronze Star In the Summary Of Action it clearly states that "These Actions by LT JG THURLOW took place under constant enemy small arms fire which LT JG THURLOW completely ignored in providing immediate assistance to the boat and crew" The Eye witness for these actions: R.E. Lambert, RD1 484 19 67 ,USN Now that you know these facts which come from the U.S. Government freedom Of Information Act, now for the Shocking Truth !!! It was approved and signed by G.M. ELLIOT, LC DR COMCOSDIV ELEVEN !! Shocking Fact # 2 J. F. Kerry LT JG 713525/1105, USNR (John F. Kerry) is also on this Bronze Star Award Recommendation which was also approved. They were both awarded Bronze Stars for there actions in that same area on that same day. Now for the Final Nail in this Liars story I the Citation for the Bronze Star it states "All units began receiving enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks Lieutenant (Junior grade) THURLOW immediately directed the coxaian of his boat to assist the damaged Inshore Patrol Craft. Despite enemy bullets flying about him." This is so wrong and there is no excuse for this at all !! Total shame should engulf these terrible men.

The Final Truth

THE SARGE!

-- 30 years is a long time to carry a grudge... and being 'hurt' by words spoken is a matter of choice, not a stab in the back.

Hop over it, and recognize that "We The People" often make very bad mistakes and tell one another lies. Vitnam is a prime example of that.

Mike Garrison USN (Time served)

Disinformation is more like it.
Point by point, the SWVT have it all over this site. Kerry has spent the vast majority of his career lying about Viet Nam - obviously the press thinks he is or on what other basis would they never questions his confession of war crimes???

The man has no principles, and simply waffles after putting his wettened finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing.

Well, I've hear enough to know a snoe job when I see it.

Bush is too liberal, but at least he makes a reasoned analysis and sticks to the game plan.

There is no character comparison at all - Bush is principled, Kerry is an opportunist.

John Teets

Swift Boaters for Trooth
To paraphrase Joseph Welsh, the Army's counsel during the McCarthy hearings, "Have they no sense of decency at long last?" These Bush partisans all continue the spirit of McCarthy, Nixon, and now O'Reilly - the fanatical, smallminded pursuit of an "enemy" with whatever means will do the job. They smear, label, obfuscate, shout down, lie - will they truly stop at nothing? Scoundrels, blackguards, curs and caitiffs - that's what they are, that's all they are.

More Harm Than Good
In all my years of listening to and viewing political attacks, yours is the most scurrilous and despicible I have encountered. It's fair game to attack his US Senate record but the second-hand accounts you present defy the written record and the eyewitness accounts of Kerry's actions in battle. All involved in this smear campaign should be ashamed of themself. In the final analysis, you are doing President Bush more harm than good.

SBVT
What a Joke, coming out against Kerry and supporting the AWOL cokehead drunk.

Just another smear
We are on to you. This won't happen again. Republicans will do anyting to get the vote except the right thing. Do the right thing. Get off of my planet.

Randall Gilman Salt Laker city

Comments by user Bodhi moved here from main page
What is going on in this country? There are men, woman and children whose lives depend on these so-called presidential candidates and all they can do is fight back and forth about issues that are relevant only to historians. Where are the issues? Shame on the press for encouraging this childish back biting and shame on the men and women who&#8217;s shortsightedness allowed them to indulge in the creation of these pointless ads, it doesn&#8217;t matter who wins this election neither party is showing any maturity. I hope that the young men and woman who are dying daily in Iraq understand why you are wasting time, money and their young lives on frivolous concerns that in the final analysis are meaningless to the future security of the world.

Thank you Bodhi

The article page is not getting to be too big a file so I have removed some material that is now redundant given recent developments. Relocating deleted text here. Main page still needs a little tidying. This Talk page is also way too big -- --Bob Burton 00:56, 23 Aug 2004 (EDT)

As one commentator noted, "When asked by NewsMax if they had in mind any potential smoking gun of distortion that might be revealed by an unfettered examination of Kerry's military records, there was no answer forthcoming." 

According to the organization's web site, it is "a tax exempt non-partisan public advocacy 527 committee/organization consisting of, and limited to, former military officers and enlisted men who served in Vietnam on U.S. Navy 'Swift Boats' or in affiliated commands. ... While swiftvets.com is separate and distinct from the Swift Boat Sailors Association, there are many individuals who are members of both. Swiftvets.com essentially serves as an informational clearing-house and internet repository of information related to the swiftvets.com mission."

As one commentator noted, "When asked by NewsMax if they had in mind any potential smoking gun of distortion that might be revealed by an unfettered examination of Kerry's military records, there was no answer forthcoming." 

According to the organization's web site, it is "a tax exempt non-partisan public advocacy 527 committee/organization consisting of, and limited to, former military officers and enlisted men who served in Vietnam on U.S. Navy 'Swift Boats' or in affiliated commands. ... While swiftvets.com is separate and distinct from the Swift Boat Sailors Association, there are many individuals who are members of both. Swiftvets.com essentially serves as an informational clearing-house and internet repository of information related to the swiftvets.com mission."

---

Winter Soldier investigation

An edit by 24.156.130.128 added that the Winter Soldier investigation was discredited without any supporting explantion and that "many of the worst stories of abuse were related by Vietnam veterans who had not seen combat, being there in administrative jobs".

I have reverted these in the absence of supporting evidence. -- --Bob Burton 01:08, 23 Aug 2004 (EDT)

--

relocated following unreferenced off-topic material -- even if referenced it doesn;t belong on a page about the SBVT -- --Bob Burton 02:55, 23 Aug 2004 (EDT)

Last winter, Kerry himself was accused by his rival Howard Dean of using a front group to run a hard-hitting TV ad in early primary states New Hampshire and South Carolina, featuring a grainy image of Osama bin Laden.

"There are those who wake up every morning determined to destroy Western civilization. Americans want a president who can face the dangers ahead, but Howard Dean has no military or foreign policy experience," the ad's narrator said as the ominous image of bin Laden grew larger on the screen.

A 527 group called Americans for Jobs, Healthcare and Progressive Values paid for the ad.

Among the group's financial backers were the International Association of Machinists, a union that had endorsed Rep. Dick Gephardt for the Democratic nomination, and former New Jersey Sen. Bob Torricelli, who raised funds for Kerry and donated $2,000 to Kerry's campaign.

"What we now see is that John Kerry is part of the corrupt political culture in Washington," Dean said in February after finding out about the funding of the ad.

Who is the liar??
George Elliot is a liar, it's just a question of deciding when. In 1969 in a military fitness report, he stated that kerry was "unsurpassed" in a combat environment. So he was either lying then or his is lying now.

As a confirmed liar, why should he be believed now on any subject. The same could be said of others involved in this nasty little scam such as Louis Letson and Roy F Hoffman.

Perhaps their records should be further examined for truthfulness? It has often been the case in the past that people who were not too brave in combat have with the passage of time started to believe their own lies. I really do wonder whether the culprit in this case is Kerry but those who are criticising him!

Sean from NS

Movies & Medals
Does anyone know who took the pictures of Kerry walking around with flak jacket and M-16?

Also, I don't remember anyone walking around wearing his Silver Star and Purple Heart as shown, besides he has them on wrong, the Silver Star is worn first then the Purple Heart. Does anyone think he was "Planning" back then?

Swift Boats Log books
Looking to find out if the swift boat crews had to keep a deck log for there boats and if they did the navy should still have them. If anybody knows the answer to this please email me at jcarolinaman39@earthlink.net.

I am not a Swift Boat Veteran
I AM VIET-NAM VETERAN and I think what John Kerry did helped the people of this country Call us "BABY KILLERS" and such when we came back to this country. I was in country for TET 1967-68 and it was no fun Kerry why don't you crawl back into your hole where you belong and take Jane Fonda with you. You both should have been Court Martialed and shot at sunrise for your Communist & Anti American activities. This is more than I have said since I came back. Go back to Russia or China you "TRAITOR's"

Ed McCullough Sr. USARMY RETIRED

So sorry
I am so sorry that soldiers had to fight in the vietnam war against a country where you did not know who the enemy was.I was a small child at the time with 2 brother in laws in the service at the time.Thank God they came back alive;but not unharmed mentally.I believe as a human being;we all need to speak up when we see things going on that we know in our heart and minds are not right.

The latest smear by former Senator Bob Dole just shows that republicans love to take things out of text and use them.I did not know until today that what John Kerry testified to about Vietnam and certain crimes being committed were not his words but what were told to him by people there.Check the records for testimony of this.It is a fact.This is another case of taking one or two sentences out of context and using them to their advantage.To me this is worse than a lie because it implies intent when the facts show otherwise.

I support all troops then and now;but that war was not a WWII situation by any means.Sometimes you just have to do the right thing to be able to live with yourself.And if that testimony got the administration off their butts,and got the soldiers left there back home sooner;however it ended,it saved alot of lives.I'm sorry other vietnam vets were hurt by it;but alot more men are walking around today because of it who otherwise might of died fighting there.

swiftboat boat senial dumbasses for the lie
I am tired of hearing these god damn veterans complain about Kerry's war record in Vietnam. I dont see how if you are a Vietnam war vet, then somehow automatically you are endowed with the knowledge of who the best president will be. Eeven if every single bullshit lie they have put forth was 100% true, it would not change the fact that Kerry put his life on the line for his country in Vietnam, and Bush's pansy ass was MIA (missing in alabama). Bush needs to stop crying, and go back to a profession that he is good at, cheerleading. I saw this interview with the doctor who said he treated Kerrys wounds, which he labeled as "scratches" that didnt even draw blood. Now, let me get this straight. Hes a doctor, and he is serving in a gruesome war, so undoubtedly he must have worked on hundreds of men per day. So unless he was Kerry's personal medic (which im sure is very possible) why the hell would he remember a "scratch" that didnt even draw blood? also, of all of these senial old veterans, how many of them actually served with Kerry for more than a span of like two days. when they say "fought with Kerry in Vietnam", all that means is that they fought at the same time, but did not see eachother for more than a day or two. I find it amusing to watch Bush's campaign talking, mostly due to his sheer stupidity (which one gets when living in texas). One man stood up and said "I dont want a man that got a few scratches in Vietnam to be my commander in cheif!". he was this fat, white, sweaty texan (i know that "fat" & "white" & "sweaty" are redundant with "texan" but oh well). could some one please tell me how that made ANY sense what so ever. I really dont think Bush's performance in Iraq was something to be proud of at all. There was NO weapons of mass destruction. I dont know what it takes to get it through the thick heads of you right wing conservative dumbasses, your presidant lied to you. Then he claims that it was not his fault (oh how convienent), yet somehow not a single person was fired (not after 9-11 either). i have been thinking about it, and i think it doesnt really matter who wins the election, cause both ways its best for america. One way, is that Kerry wins, and that would be good because it would show that America is fed up with the bad leadership of Bush, and is ready to move on. But also, if Bush wins, it would still be fitting for America, because if America is really that stupid and ignorant to vote for that man AGAIN, we really honostly dont deserve a better president. its like immediate karma really; if we vote stupidly, then we will have to pay the price.

swift boat senial dumbasses for the lie
p.s. Bob dole needs to shut up his pale, lifless, unemployed ass, and needs to start popping viagra again (although i dont think anything can revive his needle dick up ever again)

p.s.s. how many times was dole president?

No Cause of Candidate
Unlike other advocacy organizations, the SBVT does not embrace a cause or a candidate, even though they are registered with the Federal Elections Committee as a political organization operating under the 527 laws. Instead, they advocate the destruction of the reputation of a war hero and anti-war activist, simply because they disagree with him. Their major issue is that they believe he did not truly earn the medals he was awarded in Vietnam. Or they have a problem with his attitude. Or maybe it's the fact that he exercised his first amendment rights upon returning from the war and spoke against it. As most people understand, those most entitled to speak against a war are those who have fought it or are fighting it themselves, not those who never set foot in the warring country. The allegations of the SBVT have been disproven by both the official record and those who were there having come forward to speak up. It remains to be seen how much damage their existence will do to the campaign of 2004, or to whom -- Kerry or Bush. (Many money ties run right back to Bush or to his pit bull K. Rove, aka "Rover" to those who know and love him.)



"Unlike other advocacy organizations, the SBVT does not embrace a cause or a candidate, even though they are registered with the Federal Elections Committee as a political organization operating under the 527 laws. Instead, they advocate the destruction of the reputation of a war hero and anti-war activist, simply because they disagree with him." if i wanted a load of bullshit, i would have asked the bush administration if there were weapons of mass destruction. Think about it you dumbass, there are TWO people running for president, if you bash one, then obviously you are supporting the other one. and how odd that they did these adds right before the election (but i bet that is just a coincidence right?) if they soley wanted to say how they felt about Kerry, then they would have put these commercials out a long time ago, not get paid off buy rich lying republicans right before the election.

Also have three Purple Hearts
John Kerry served our country unlike Bush and Channey. History has shown that the war was waged on a lie and the cause was wrong. If brave people like Kerry didn't speak out we could still be loosing lives in Vietnam. I supported the war in the beginning because I believed the lies. After serving my tour I realized we were wasting lives for no good reason and was against it. The SVBT group has no credibility because none of them were on his boat. As a combat veteran I am disgusted and embarrassed by them.

Veterans
I have been a nurse for 27 years. In the 1970's and 80's WWII vets never talked about their war experiences. You had to pry it out of them if you were interested; and I was. Some had seen the death camps, one had been in The Battle of the Bulge, one had seen Hiroshima after the bomb dropped; and they didn't want to talk about it. Sadness showed in their eyes and they quickly changed the subject to something else. I liked those guys. They seemed to have a sense of the real tradgedy and horror of war. No bragging about honorable service and pride and all the stuff you see on bumper stickers (!) now. It wasn't an ALL ABOUT ME attitude. It was more like war is really hell and I was lucky to survive. Now I want to forget it.

Shame on the lot of you self serving people that have to smear someone elses record for political purposes. What pomposity and arrogance! You are a disgrace to all Americans, who like people all over the world, have had to serve in the military. You have no mandate to judge who is fit to lead. You do not have the last word on war. Nobody does except maybe the dead and permanently damaged and injured; many, many of whom are innocent men, women, and children. Have you no sense of decency.

Consider takin up knitting. You will do less damage.

Gwen Vilen, RN Mayo Clinic

where are you "facts" on MOVEON.ORG ???????

so funny.
It's funny to me that Kerry played up to the damaging comments that were made toward Bush, however when charged that he has some things to answere for, he starts crying unfair treatment. Is this what how he will conduct himself if elected? Since he has charges of misconduct levied he could clear them by releasing his war records or keep silent and hope they go away but to start crying unfair treatment after taking part in the same type of actions is a disgrace. This single action on his part has cost him my vote. Now I guess I just will not vote!

I don't know
To the one calling for Kerry to release his records for every one to look at well Bush could do the same but I'll tell you when it comes to what one I would believe. Well lets just say Kerry ain't no Senate's son you all. No for answer as to why Kerry's boat didn't have a bullet hole in it Man I don't know but could you explain why one of my buddies was damn near cut into by machine gun fire and I and another guy on the other side of Clark weren't hit? Or the time I got my purple heart where seven were killed and the three of us were wounded and we were hit all by the same explosive? When you can answer my questions then I'm sure you'll have the answer about Kerry to. Greg Jacobson

As of today Augest 25, 2004, who is the liars and what Americans can do.
Italic text

I have been all around checking out differants web sites and the posting that occurred. Now Cnn Fox and the lot are finding from factcheck.org facts ladies and gentalmen, facts. Since 1967 when I came home there was a differant United States, that is because then we were at over 30,000 men killed, 1968,1969,1970 the losses were into 40,000. I had family, friends that have lost a complete generation of family. Yes we all were in fact mislead by our Nation Government.

Yes we all thought just get a job, start a family and make yourself usefull.

As of today the networks are bringing up the facts we all were told to be true form the bush side, from the swiftboat side, anfd the disloyal sob's who have made yet another shambles of American Government, the same one when voted in say they will uphold the integery of our Country. Yeah right, another Richard Nixon and he was lucky to have resigned due to the senate vote of 96 to 4 to impeach him for his acts against America, it citzens, our moral values, and the most our Honor.

I'am voting for Senator John Kerry. Fact

When President Clinton left office ( ok he recieved something that the other person involved wanted as well) OK, that isn't the point, when Mr. Clinton left we were in a surplus, alot of surplus that would have carried into our childrens childrens life, today we are at 22 Trillion deficit.

Really poor numbers isn't it.

We are all tired of the promises about OUR NATION, and we must vote.

If I get any further with my comments they would most likely be very disrespectfull and that I refuse to do.

Good day Ladies and Gentalmen

catfishpat

-- posting email sent to Dinfopedia but addressed to SBVT - --Bob Burton 20:07, 25 Aug 2004 (EDT)

You are the biggest idiots in history. The negative ad campaign against JK is actually a very negative ad for the Vietnam Vets. War is brutal and personalities change for survival, your ad is a snapshot from the past and has nothing to do with the reality. People change a lot over time and learn. Every buddy has a right to grow up. Your group did not. Your still at war and you can not forget. Burry yourself and get out of the way for the ever changing world. I believe that either you are jells because none of you runs for president or you were paid buy of BUSH. Rolf Koss